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Yes, sadly, it is human

I posted this as a comment to my previous entry, but I'm reposting it here.

I think it's dangerous to write off people who do stuff like that by saying they're "inhuman" or "insane." Humans have been killing innocent people in the name of hatred or religion since history began. To me that means it's entirely human to do it. That doesn't mean it is comprehensible. A great deal of what humans don't is incomprehensible, to me, anyway.

If I saw a shark eating someone I cared about, I would get very upset. The upset would take a lot of different forms. I might hate the shark, even though I know "rationally" that the shark is just doing its thing. I might be angry at the person for letting this happen to them, even though that might not make much sense either, they might not have had any way to avoid it. I might be angry at the government for not getting rid of sharks. I might be angry at the universe for creating itself in such a way that some beings have to eat other beings to survive. Or I might take a step away, take my upsetness and turn it against people who want to kill all the sharks. Or I might even take it in the direction of admiring the shark for being such a well honed hunting machine.

So far my expressions of such upset and anger aren't in the same league as those of people who fly jets into the WTC. But I think the differences are more in degree than in kind.

I've cheered action films where the bad guys get blown up. I've wanted people I thought were dangerous to get killed or punished or incapacitated.

Comments

( 7 comments — Leave a comment )
feline
Sep. 12th, 2001 11:45 am (UTC)
It is very human and thank you....
chorus_of_chaos
Oct. 21st, 2001 08:57 am (UTC)
the formula of it
"Humans have been killing innocent people in the name of hatred or religion since history began. To me that means it's entirely human to do it. That doesn't mean it is comprehensible. A great deal of what humans don't is incomprehensible, to me, anyway"

I was sitting and doodling the night of the disaster, just trying to sort things out in my mind....I came up with "religion + politics = evil" Our founding fathers had sense when they said 'seperation of church and state' unfortunately those following them didn't have the sense to adhere to it. :(
firecat
Oct. 22nd, 2001 01:48 pm (UTC)
Re: the formula of it
Despite all the God Bless stuff around right now, the US still separates church and state more than many nations. I think we need to be vigilant to make sure that stays the case, though.
chorus_of_chaos
Oct. 22nd, 2001 02:52 pm (UTC)
Re: the formula of it
That's part of my fear right now...there's that whole "let churches offer assistance and services and the government doesn't do it anymore" thing. No, the government needs to do it and the churches need to stay out of it. It could come to the point where you have to be a member of a church to recieve assistance if you get in bad straights, there won't be services available for those of us who "on the fringe" and don't conform, and there are some of us who simply can't.

I'm mentally ill, and if I had a dime for every time I've been told that there's nothing wrong with me and I just need to pray to God I would be a millionaire. That kind of mentality scares the crap out of me...because the fact is that my problems is a biochemical imbalance called Manic Depression, and if I take certain meds and with counselling to help me cope with the mood swings my life is at least bearable. If I don't have that available to me I am level 9 suicidal...which means on the verge of it at any given minute. There is a 20% chance that someone with Manic Depression will commit suicide. That's twice as high as any other mental illness. Then you add the fact that I have other mental illnesses and I'm looking at a 40% chance on any given day.

Continued...
firecat
Oct. 22nd, 2001 06:04 pm (UTC)
Re: the formula of it
I'm mentally ill, and if I had a dime for every time I've been told that there's nothing wrong with me and I just need to pray to God I would be a millionaire.

Euuuwwwwwww. I have depression, and I haven't heard that one, but I have heard plenty of "you just aren't trying hard enough" and "if you would just try this diet, that supplement, the other exercise program..."

Oversimplified dogma is ugly even when it doesn't come from a religion.
chorus_of_chaos
Oct. 22nd, 2001 02:54 pm (UTC)
continued from previous, god I'm gabby today
If services such a low cost/free mental health clinics and medication assistance are turned over to the churches, do you really think they will bother to provide REAL assistance to that segment of the population? I don't think so. I think it will just be an opportunity to preach.

I've had one therapist who's solution to all my problems was "to say the Lord's Prayer whenever I get upset." Hmm..I have 3 times the normal amount of adreneline, I'm spiking into manic, my biochemistry has gone berserk and it feels like I'm on cocaine or speed (neither of which I've done but a fellow manic depressive described it that way), all of which I have no control over other than the training I get through therapy or the medications, I'm on the verge of committing either homicide or suicide...and I should stop and say the Lord's Prayer...

yep...real helpful there...that's gonna work. And when it doesn't you get accused of your faith being weak, and you're treated like a phariah, and it gets worse every time you have an episode. Is it real obvious I've been there and speak from experience that church controlled assistance is a big mistake, and that the government needs to maintain control over these things? If churches are willing to provide services than let them provides services and get their tax cuts, like they always have, but for the love of pete keep the government and state assistance open and available.

Sigh...I'm having one of those days....I'm been through so much abusive crap because of religion (including being molested and tortured by a nutcase who thought the bible gave him the right to do what he wanted) that whenever the Christian Right and the Moral Majority and Fallwell and Robertson and all of them start running their mouths that these things happen because we don't pray in schools, and I watch the president carrying on about god, and our school board is thinking of making the pledge and a bunch of other stuff manadatory and there is a big court deal going on here about posting the 10 commandments in schools and state buildings and blah blah blah and I start seeing us returning to the Middle Ages where the church controlled everything and if you didn't speak the church line perfectly all the time you got burned at the stake.

I guess paranoia is running strong today. I look at Afghanistan and how the Taliban and their wierd ass version of Islam (I've read some of the Koran, I don't know how these bastards managed to twist it THAT much)dominates and abuses it's citizens....and I look at the religious proslytizing that has stepped up in this country and the whole "we will win because God is on our side" attitude and just want to run screaming....how often have people become a fun house mirror reflection of the very thing they strike out against, in the process of vengance?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against us finding every freaking Al Qaeda and Taliban idiot over there and bashing their little heads open and feeding their brains to the ants....(if they have ants in Afghanistan) but we need to seek our vengance with a clear and logical mind, not just a bunch of rhetoric. The whole rhetoric route just makes us the fun house mirror or them. Warped in a different way, but essentially the same.

Vengence should be based on the logic of "the only way to prevent this happening again is to make sure that none of them are left to do it again." (meaning the al quada, taliban, and other terrorist orgs, not meaning the afghanistans...I feel horribly sorry for those people, especially the women. I've felt for years just on the basis of the human rights violations alone we should have kicked the shit out of the Taliban.)

Sigh....can we telll I'm manic today and wound up!!! Nothing like having a pyscho post on your comments page....
firecat
Oct. 22nd, 2001 06:08 pm (UTC)
Re: continued from previous, god I'm gabby today
how often have people become a fun house mirror reflection of the very thing they strike out against, in the process of vengance?

It's practically a given. I am finding myself surprisingly pleased at the restraint of the US government compared to its populace.

And I don't mind intelligent and self-aware psychos with writing talent posting comments in my journal. (I'd say most of my friends qualify, for less complex/difficult values of "psycho".)
( 7 comments — Leave a comment )

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